Comments on: References in your Manuscript

By: L

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:28:01 +0000

I agree that pop culture refs shouldn’t get tacked on for the sake of entertaining the author’s peers, but Sixteen Candles and the like can still be relevant to today’s teens. As you said in another post, pop culture references within may get dated, but emotional relatability is what makes it timeless.

By: JJ

JJ — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 01:38:34 +0000

Thank you so much for this post! I have a lot of pop culture references in my ms. I think they make the characters who they are though and if taken out would be missed. It is one of my writing group’s favorite things about some of my characters.

I try to use references that I think are lasting and have been around for more than a blink, such as Dracula, Wolverine and the X-Men, Super Mario Bros, Lolita, etc. I do use a couple of references that some may not get such as Little Shop of Horrors and a James Brown song but overall, I think it works.

It sounds like you are not extremely fond of pop culture references. If you did not understand the vast majority of the references would that be a rejection? I’m going to start querying in February and you’re on the list so it’d be good to know in advance.

Thank you!

By: MaryZ

MaryZ — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 15:18:04 +0000

I’ve been concerned about references in my MG novel set in the sixties. So I’ve read many popular published books set around that time period, and found that the authors just drop in a reference and move on–no explanation. How many of you remember Dobey Gillis?

By: Bryan Bliss

Bryan Bliss — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:17:14 +0000

My own ms has some movie references, which I struggled to keep. I ended up creating a minor subplot that helps the overall character, etc. Plus, I get to keep my movie references….;)

I guess when I think about this comment, I come back to Frank Portman’s KING DORK. My favorite part of that book is the glossary at the back….hilarious stuff like his definition for Led Zeppelin (something about dudes dressed up like wizards and running around a field…)

By: Susan James

Susan James — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 23:17:13 +0000

Very interesting discussion.
I recently bought a book for my daughter age 13. I like to support debut authors. From her blog, I know the writer is very into the late 80′s, early 90s Valley Girl/ Buffy era and the MC acts and talks like that. My daughter was unimpressed with the book- thought the MC sounded “old fashioned” though she’s suppose to be ultra cool.

By: Mary

Mary — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:14:31 +0000

Martha — Here’s my rule of thumb… If you took it away, would the story be drastically altered? Would entire plot points disappear like Atlantis? Then it’s a character trait that drives the story. Don’t take it away. If absolutely nothing happens after its removal, as with anything, it wasn’t important enough.

By: Martha Flynn

Martha Flynn — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:34:38 +0000

How do you distinguish that line between annoying “quirks” like loving 80′s films and a real character trait that drives the story like the Dani Noir obsession with Rita Hayworth? Or how can we keep our character traits from becoming gratuitous quirks? Or is that another post?

By: Mary

Mary — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:17:49 +0000

Janflora — I don’t think it’s too soon at all. Check out THE USUAL RULES by Joyce Maynard or LOVE IS THE HIGHER LAW by David Levithan for two 9/11 stories that I can think of right off the top of my head.

Shaun — Hey there! How’s it going? Yeah, I don’t think there are direct parodies in GOING BOVINE either, and you do bring up a book that uses references well (and is, overall, a great book!). I love The Copenhagen Interpretation, it is a hilarious hipster band name. Also, these types of winking references perfectly fit the style of Libba’s story, so your point about tone is very well-taken.

By: Shaun Hutchinson

Shaun Hutchinson — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:50:07 +0000

Hey there, Mary! This is a great post. I’ve actually been reading Libba Bray’s GOING BOVINE and I’ve really been impressed with how she handles those sorts of things. She uses names that are similar to real life items or bands but with a wink and a nod. Like they’re not really a parody and they don’t have any particular meaning (or they do and I’m just too dense to get them) but you get the vibe without needing a lot of explanation. Like a band that pops up frequently is The Copenhagen Interpretation. Without even needing a description of the music they play it brought to mind that kind of self-reflective indie band that takes itself a little too seriously.

So I think it really depends on the type of book. If the book is serious, I think it’s best to go with real world stuff. Sure, something may look dated, but that’s going to happen no matter what you do. If you’re writing a serious book and you use MyFace instead of MySpace, not only will it look dated but it’ll also look really lame.

By: janflora

janflora — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 04:39:51 +0000

Excellent timing for this post! I have been wondering about this very topic and appreciate the advice, as well as John’s comments. I am torn between using #1 and #3. My WIP is set in the 90s but I am wondering how much I can use as far as brand names and actual people/events, without crossing into historical fiction, which I believe requires more fact than fiction sometimes. Meanwhile, I am planning my next YA novel as historical fiction centered around the events of 2001 (especially 9/11). I am wondering if it is actually too soon? Can that even be considered history yet? I think it is imperative to use actual references in that case since the meta-story is so well-known. Glad to hear that the Secret Anachronism Police won’t be jumping out at me though!